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I'm at the office of the Defender Chiefton in Zacara, New Mexico.

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I have just talked to a gentleman here who was on the site Saturday morning, some hours

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after the occurrence while the imprints were still very clear.

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And I'm going to ask him some questions.

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I wonder if he could tell us his name first.

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I'm published with the LFNC chiefton.

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Regarding what was seen by you at the site, did you see the indentations or tracks while they were still very fresh?

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Yeah, I'm the data editor the next morning and that was Saturday morning.

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And before hundreds of people had gotten the chance to literally do all the tracks.

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What was your impression of these tracks? Do you think they were made by a heavy object or by a light object or by a digging out or what?

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I would say a heavy object coming down very slowly and made a full fire of each depression in a comparatively hard sand there in the grove.

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And the even longer they were alive.

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I'm at 12 hour guess, I'm at 12 inches long and 3-4 inches wide.

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And equally deep perhaps running to the center in a wedge was that the description that was actually on this that I heard?

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Well, probably a little deeper on the south side, I mean the north side of the way it landed.

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From his description, the front of the plane or the object I put that way, were facing south.

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And the way it landed on uneven ground there seemed to be a heavy indentations on the south side which indicates that more of the weight was there.

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This would be logical to me because as I recall from being there this morning, the south side is downhill.

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I mean it kind of slants up into the north so there might actually be more weight on the south side if there were an object bouncing, sitting on these legs.

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Is this your observation too?

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Yes.

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Now I hear there were two little indentations off to one side through the west side, sort of parallel with one of the lines made by two of the four legs.

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Did you see these two indentations yourself?

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Yes, I did.

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And someone in the crowd, one of them was only four, one of them made a remark that they possibly foot prints or if you can't describe it more of a hoof print,

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but that wasn't the impression that I had of the plane.

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And we decided in our story in our newspaper that we wouldn't go into that too deep, that it sounded a little preposterous.

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I see. How close were these to the line formed by the two nearest foot prints?

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We were following up by the object's leg prints. How close were they to the line made by the two nearest foot prints?

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Well, they were practically in the center between the two indentions that were made by the legs on the west side.

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Yes.

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And probably 36 inches, about a yard.

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Were they in parallel with that line made by the two legs?

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No. They were... Yes, parallel, I'm sorry.

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Yes.

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Now, we won't speculate as to what these were.

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I was wondering, it was on the same side that Samora told me that he had seen some figures of a distance in white coveralls.

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Did he tell you about these figures?

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Yes. Yes, they were on the same side. Those were the indentions on the ground around the hole.

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Inventions, brother.

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And talking to Dr. Heine, he implied that Samora told him nothing specific at all about seeing any men, implied that he hadn't even mentioned any men.

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He later seemed to come down and say that he mentioned coveralls after a very pointed questioning by one of the persons who was present.

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But did in this talk with Samora, sitting after the sightings, since you were one of the first to be there, did he mention to you that he actually saw men or just coveralls?

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He very definitely did. He said there were two there.

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He didn't say anything about them being men, but you meant to think so because he said that he, when he was still in a car, that one of them, both of the men or objects, had to back to him.

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And one of them turned around and looked him square in the face. That was his exact words.

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He very definitely said that he saw two men there at the object.

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And he said that immediately he disappeared and apparently got in the plane from the side, from the west side, and the plane lifted up and started off.

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That's an interesting thing. It is known from the west side. This is pretty spectacular.

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If they got you on the west side, weren't you told that there were two circular indentations at the west side?

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Yes. I'm trying.

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Would you say these were the division work with speculation we might think it could have been some stairs that had been folded down, that it touched down there, that this look like it could have been this?

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Yeah, it's possible. I thought that later when I got to thinking about it.

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You don't know what I'm there to think of men with quilts or anything like that. So I presume that.

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But for the market part, there weren't no other facts there.

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Yes. I could think that the men were small and childlike as the one report said. Did he tell you that? That they were childlike?

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Yeah, well, that was his description. Some of them said that they were small. That's what he meant.

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I would think if they were that small, maybe overnight there, footprints might have been destroyed by a little breeze or something.

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Well, it could have been.

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The heavier ones would have remained a little more.

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So let's only speculate from many of these things we're associated with.

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A ladder of suns started to leave. This might give us a reason to why we're on the west side of the object since we know that according to Zamora's report, this is where the men disappeared into the object that's on the west side.

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Now, would you say that Zamora was still rather excited Saturday morning when you were there?

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No, he doesn't know that part of it.

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Zamora impressed me as a very calm and level-headed sort of fellow, not subject to imaginative spells or hallucinations.

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Would this be your impression of him and from the people's knowledge of him here in town?

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Would you say this seems to be a general impression?

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No, no.

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Good.

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Well, I think that this will help me out in getting the details of this case on record since I may not have time to talk to all of these things.

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Well, Mr. Zamora has been bothered a lot by everyone questioning him and calling him on the telephone and I certainly can't hear out.